What Psychedelics Actually Do To You (The Full Truth)

Cocaine doesn't tell you no. It has a clear end. There is never like, I started taking mushrooms and I craved them all the time. It tells you when to stop taking it. Yeah, no other drugs do that. I think people want the magic wand. Isn't therapy enough? I felt hollow because my marriage was a shit show. I was completely overwhelmed being a mom. My old facilitator said to me, you have so much deep shit to work on, and she was right. Is there a particular ratio that you follow with MDMA to psilocybin? Ranges anywhere from. I think with psychedelics, you have to be flexible and playful. You gotta pay to play. When stuff is free, people just don't value it. There's definitely people that I'll say no to because I don't feel like I'm the right person for them. You just had a serious traumatic event, maybe don't do mushrooms right away. How do you like to prepare people for what they should do? When people do this, they're going to feel great. If you've ever wondered about doing MDMA psilocybin, this is definitely an episode you should listen to. If you've ever wondered about doing MDMA psilocybin as a medicine for healing creativity, this episode with Ilana, the underground mama on TikTok and Instagram, she dives in the whole protocol. She's been doing this in the underground scene for a long time and so if you've ever been curious about what this medicine can do, who to work with, who not to work with, and also if you just want to party.

With MDMA this is definitely an episode you should listen to. Ilana, the Underground mama, super pumped to have you here on the Two Fun Guys Multiverse. Welcome. Thank you so much. I'm thrilled to be here. Yeah, I found you on TikTok actually a while ago, and I'm just, you know, the wealth of information you know about MDMA from therapeutic, but then just people that just maybe want to do it recreationally. You're just a wealth of knowledge. And, you know, I've been a personal trainer for 20 years and I come across people all the time, especially in their mid-30s, 40s, and up, doing MDMA mushroom ceremonies, and I could tell it's, it's breaking through into the mainstream, even though it's still technically underground and I want to help educate people. And be able to really demystify a lot of the propaganda that's been put out there when all this stuff became criminalized and the importance of it. You know, I come across a lot of people who say, well, isn't therapy enough? Can't you figure things out that way? And I think you just, I just really want to educate people, and you are the one to do that job.

Hm, thank you, thank you so much, and I'm glad you, you know, about a year and a half ago, I got the very internal, um, awareness knowing download, you can call it whatever you want, and, you know, the spaces that I had to go out and talk about this work and so much of what I had read, I mean, my, all my experience is really experiential sitting with commons facilitators, people that have been doing this for a long time, and You know, MDMA, it's really interesting because on TikTok, I do a lot of videos about psilocybin, so I personally work with a combination of MDMA and psilocybin. Sometimes I will have sessions with people with just MDMA, sometimes it's just psilocybin, but those are the two molecules I work with. And it's amazing because the MDMA videos, people are fascinated by MDMA and I think it's because there's already inherently built culture, like rave culture that um has accepted it for a long, long time, so there's this foundational element and, you know, at first I, I thought to myself.

I started getting my like certain videos started taking off that were only MDMA and I was like, wait, I don't want to be the MDMA person. Like I wanna be like a grounded woman that's worked hard as a, you know, as a facilitator, and then I thought, you know, if all these people that are taking MDMA, if all they get out of my videos is maybe they craft an intention or maybe they start to understand that there's another. And one other possibility, not that their possibility is wrong, it's just that there's other options of accessing these molecules. Job done. Like no reason to not communicate. So that's why I do so many tips on MDMA. It's because people, that's what they want to hear. That's. How did you get into facilitating? Gosh, so, um, I had a very successful marketing company that I sold to Vice Media and. And around 2010, uh, my life looked very, very glossy and amazing on the outside. I had all the things, I had all the celebrity clients traveled the world, the marriage, the loft, the kids, all of it, but like a lot of people, I internally just, I felt hollow and I felt like this can't be it, like I've worked, I've done it, but why does it not feel like I've done it because my marriage was a shit show.

I was completely overwhelmed being a mom, and my business had grown out of my capacity, out of my skill set, like I was not equipped for all these things. So, I was introduced to a plant medicine community, I think because I was like, I literally asked the universe, where are my people? And like, where is this? I always had a spiritual pump inside. It's just, it, I couldn't reconcile it with my life, with the business that I was in. So, uh, I got introduced to a community. Um, I 3 journeys to properly drop in, that's, you know, a whole other story, but when I got the download on the 3rd journey, I was like, holy shit, like I've done so much other, you know, work or, you know, different therapy and the books and all the things, and I'd never experienced something so powerful. So I really started as a way of um. My work, I had no idea that I facility.

And even 10 years ago, 11 years ago, I mean, the only facilitators that existed were like Peruvian shaman, right, and um a few other people that traveled around the way happened that I, my first facilitator was just passed actually months ago, but she was a woman in her 70s that studied with this Peruvian shaman for a long time and had a beautiful home in Connecticut, and so it became my home away from home and, you know, lo and behold there. He and I started assisting that community, and I met up many other facilitators that I ended up sitting with, and in 2020 when COVID hit, um, me and two other people from that community really set up as a way to help people, really assist, um, people going through a tough time, and that was when I started to think to myself. Hm, maybe gonna do this, but I say it was such a comfortable process because becoming a facilitator in that time for me was also about stepping away, or it felt like I was leaving another life behind, right, like entry into this new life, but again didn't know how to reconcile my, my world. They were not integrated yet.

And yeah. Can you talk about that ceremony where you had this profound experience? Can you, what that was like, what you felt? Gosh. So, you know, what I've realized is everyone journeys very differently. Um, for me, the awarenesses come as a knowing, a download, like in a microsecond, um, where that particular journey, I walked away with the understanding that How, how to love the people in my life. So not like I love you, let me make you a cake, but like I love you and the way you need to be loved is you need to have words of affirmation. So whenever the way I can show you I love you is through that, and so it went through every single person in my life that was really close to me that had meaning. And it gave me the exact way that I need to love those people. Now, you can say you could read a book to do that. There's a million things out there, right? There's different ways that we consume that information, but the awareness was so clear, it was a body and mind understanding that completely changed the way that I treat my children, my ex-husband, everyone at the time.

So when you started serving in 2020, what were some of the experiences you were having, you know, holding space for people? Well, I started serving in 2017 when I was assistant. I wasn't the main server, but I was the assistant server in a place where we would have 20 people on a Friday, 20 people on a Saturday. So I was, I, I saw a lot of, you know, the holding space, and I really learned from my mentor. Um, and when we set up our own, we follow the protocol, so, you know, there's many different, there's as many journey styles as there are people, honestly, people do it lots of way. So the way that we learned and the way that I continue to do it 95% of the time is you take your, your medicine and you have an eye mask and you're in your process for like 6 hours, like there's no talking to anybody, there's music, sometimes it's live, sometimes it's a playlist, and the holding space. You know, really becomes, it, it about making sure that there's the process before, you know, all, all the questions, everything that, you know, you're qualifying somebody before they actually come into a ceremony, knowing what they're walking in with, knowing the medicine and how it may or may not work, and trusting the medicine. And then, you know, like for, for example, yesterday, I had a session with somebody. It was an online session, and, you know, the, you tell people, lay down.

Do your work. This guy. Basically wanted to be on his phone texting with me because it's, oh man. So but here's the thing, here's the interesting thing, I so implicitly, right, and I trust myself more important as well, and I thought, you know, let's just see what, what, what this is, and I started asking him questions. His entire journey was with me on text. He needed that lubricate, he needed that those questions, he needed to um be handheld in that way, and he had a very profound journey. And so it's this kind of thing of like, yes, you're holding space, it doesn't look like just one thing, there's no right one way, you know, there is a way. Um, but that's just an example of trusting the medicine, going with it, asking questions, and knowing you're gonna end up. It, it will reveal what it needs to reveal. Yeah, I think with psychedelics, you have to be flexible and playful and it and sometimes the rigidity, you're not going to get what you need.

Right, yeah, and, and, you know, everyone's doing their best, everyone's struggling, everybody, you know, if you're already there, it's cause you want to know something, you know, so there's that inherent trust that has to be created. Yeah, exactly. So you work with MDMA and psilocybin together. I do. So yeah, so walk me through why those two are combined. What, what's exactly happening? I love it. I love this question. So, um, you know, luckily because I've, I've sat, I mean, I say this all the time in my videos, 1600 people in the underground, but, you know, I've sat with a lot of people and at one time we were using mostly MDMA and those sessions were a lot of talking sessions. So MDMA. It allows, we call it heart in this world, right? So, it opens your heart. It allows you to feel more empathy. It shuts down a part of your brain that really has the fear part of your brain. So, that goes offline and you're able to feel just way more empathically. And with MDMA, people want to talk a lot, right? That it's a beautiful, it's a beautiful molecule, you know. Um, but the thing is, is what I realized is that the, the most intimacy and the deepest depth that you can have in terms of at least is my personal opinion, is sitting with yourself, honestly, like being with what is, what is going on with you, and sometimes the talking can really be a distraction.

At the beginning, sometimes people need that like at their first journeys, but beyond that, there's nothing harder than being with yourself and seeing how the if you show in the world, it's not always easy, you know, and so the psilocybin, we call that spirit and So the and, and psilocybin allows us to enter and get into our subconscious space and so our deeper subconscious space. And so those two molecules in just the right mixture because you can't do too much MDMA, otherwise it overpowers the entire experience. Is the perfect combination of feeling open, empathic to yourself, to others, whatever shows up in your journey, and as you go subconscious and sometimes, you know, go in many, many altered states. Is there a particular ratio that you follow with MDMA to psilocybin? And before you answer one quick thing, your audio is cutting out a little bit. I don't know if there's something on your end that you usually do to fix that, but it kind of comes through a little choppy from time to time.

Um, you know, let me see if I could walk into another room. I, let me see. Hi, you're taking a little walk. You take a little tour of Ilana's house. New York. We get a behind the scenes. Everybody gets to see the, the true you. Oh, the true me. OK, so this is a little darker in here, but it might the audio. I like your house. You have very good style. Thank you very much. Thank you. So, um. OK, the, the exact ratio. So, yes, there is an exact amount that um it's not a full dose of MDMA and it ranges anywhere from 80 to 100 mgs that, that's what I work with. Um, and then with the psilocybin, it's between 3 and 5 g. So anything more than 100 mgs on MDMA. It just, it's the, the journey itself can start getting muddier. It's harder to call. What is going on, it's way more physical, so people have a hard time laying down. So that is the variable that we work with.

And how do you dose? Like, do you take MDMA and then immediately take psilocybin, or 30 minutes, 30 minutes from each other? Yeah, MDMA first, psilocybin followed. That's, yeah, cool. And then do people usually do like um a booster somewhere through, or do you usually just do one dose and then you're like your your MDMA then your psilocybin, and there's your journey? Yeah, so we, I do one dose, except that about, it really depends about an hour, 1 hour and 15 minutes. It depends how long it took us to get in. Obviously I'm watching the clock and checking with every single person to make sure where they're at at. About an hour after they've taken the um the psilocybin, and at that point, if they're hovering, and I describe hovering as laying there and like, oh my God, I forgot to feed my cat and my daughter's school called, I didn't get back to them. The bank, I was hovering, right? You're in your checklist of life, of whatever you're doing. If anybody is ever still in their mind and in the control space, that is when they're going to get some additional psilocybin, not MDMA.

And based on that, then, and then I'll follow up with them again, 30 minutes later. I mean, it's very rare that people need more than one additional boost, probably in a room of say 15 people, there'll be maybe 3 or 4 that need a little more. Um, of psilocybin, the rest of them are dosed appropriately. So, um, and then, yeah, and then keeping track of exactly how much they've taken, you know, so you know for next time because people's doses are specific to them, you know, their body appolizes. How hands on are you during the journeys cause, you know, we've done journeys where, like you said, it's put the blindfolds on, there's some music and then it's silence, and then other times where it's very led, whether it's through breathwork or Vision like, um, yeah, visioning envisioning things like do you have a particular methodology that you follow with people that is sort of replicatable? It's a great question. You know, I, so I do retreat. I do like overnights. I, I, I do multiple different things. When I have a day session, it's usually um a little bit of a short meditation going in, um, then a yoga Nidra, which is just a body scan right before you go in.

As they're laying thereafter, they've taken, you know, their second medicine because you're counting down the clock, like you don't want them to get in their head as much as possible, and then, and then there they are to their meditation. Um, when it comes to, um, overnights, there's more space. So, I'm totally about the transpersonal space, and, um, I love to do different things to allow people to open, whether that's You know, there's exercises they can do with one another to open the room more, um, and then sometimes we'll do a bit of yoga, sometimes I'll invite a breathwork person that is like an expert breathwork person, you know, it really depends, like we did one when, um, it was like a month ago and it was in this beautiful outdoor land and home, and so we just spent, you know, 2 hours outdoors. Uh, in the snow, really, um, and we, I had somebody who was an expert on the land that did a meditation for us around the land and calling that in. So, I'm, I'm really kind of playful with it. I don't have one way to go. My journeys are crafted based on who's there. Am I doing a women's only?

Am I doing it, uh, you know, couples, like, so it really is, is a little different, and in terms of my hands on during the journey experience, once the journey starts, you know, definitely sometimes people need help, so they need help dropping in, but once they've got it, like I won't stay with them too long because people use you as a crutch to not get into their own work. You know, so it's knowing when they're in there enough, where they can do their own work. But believe me, I've had many a journey where, uh, you know, where there's obviously you talk about consent in the beginning and, you know, touch and what's appropriate, but like hand holding, heart holding, body hugs where people need that oftentimes, you know, there there's people have different, I had one experience, many experiences, I mean, where, you know, I'm, I've become the mom or the dad. And they're the kid that needs to be held. So each journey is really specific.

Do you have any stories that really changed you as you took someone through it that you can share? Stories that changed me. Like walking through particular clients that, you know, that experience maybe worked on you like a medicine, holding space for that individual. You know, it's, it's really interesting because in the last, uh, this has been a theme in my mind over the last month. I think some of the greatest change happens in the micro moments, not even the macro moments. By that, it's like the journey we have these peak experiences like I've had somebody giving, you know, uh like birth next to me. I've become, I've become Iron Man putting on my, you know, spacesuit where, you know, retrieving souls like there is so much that this, you know, that those experiences really the peak experiences, but the things that changed me.

are the, the discipline that I see people put in beyond the journey, the ways they show up, when they show up for themselves in the things that don't actually sound very glamorous or that interesting. They're meditating, they're moving, they're eating differently. Though, for me, that's where I see profound change, and that's the part that I feel like, even, you know, uh, like, as grateful for, if not more, because that's where lasting change happens. Do you have people do a certain kind of preparation protocol before they show up? Yeah, so, you know, it's really interesting with preparation, even though preparation and integration are two words that, um, you know, now they didn't exist 5 years ago. I think it's like 5 years or so that people really started talking about preparation and integration. And so what I do is part of my orbit, uh, and it depends on what kind of range of clients, but certainly with my online clients and, you know, my regular clients, I have 7 days of preparation videos, and many people, I noticed, you know, probably 70% of them watch it, probably 30% don't. I think people want the magic wand, you know, many people are not wanting to truly prepare, and that goes doubly with integration.

Because once the journey is over, I also have 7 days of integration videos where it's all best practices, and I see that maybe 30 or 40% of the people actually watch those. The journey is over and they're like, I'm done. You know, so I'm actually really getting more focused on working with clients for at least a duration of 6 months where we have deep dive containers, like every month has a different theme and focus, where they can, you know, really, really get into it, more expensive, but you know what, when people pay more money, they actually do the work, because they have more to lose. They're like way more in it. You know, so, uh, what I've seen is that those are, um, I also, I mean, I've integration groups. I mean, I do all this work, and I'm always amazed at who shows up. Yeah, it's so true. If it's, I mean, you got to pay to play when stuff is free, people just don't value it, it's, it's a wash away, but when there's money on the line or something on the line, yeah, they, they take it seriously, they really put the effort in.

Because they, it's a different and, and the other thing is, you know, I've come from this world, um, and certainly is what happens here in New York is like, oh, you go to one journey or or what that, what's that person like, and I've heard this guy is coming in for proof and and people just bounce around. Between and they're not really like focusing in on one thing. I actually think that when people have deep work to do, like, not interested in that one-off journey experience, like I'm getting more and more away from that because I actually don't think it benefits. I know what people say, oh, I, I have to feel cold and whatever. My old facilitator said to me, you have so much deep shit to work on, like you need to come here every 2 months for a year and a half, and she was right, she was right, you know, but I thought she was upselling. Yeah, it's, it's not a one and done. You, you gotta keep bringing things up. Lay them on the table, start going through them, and then life shows up and gets you busy and distracted, and then you gotta scrape another layer.

Exactly, and, you know, when you're and and I've noticed that it comes in like yearly waves, like at first people are just dealing with their trauma. And then, you know, maybe they get into their lineage, and then they start dealing with, you know, the here and now, the presence, right? And that so there's like this arc of like how some of these things move through us, and, you know, definitely at the beginning, a lot of it is just the foundational stuff, like until we work through the foundational stuff, it's hard to move into the other pieces. Yeah, yeah, exactly. What do you say to people that, you know, I hear it, you know, people ask me about me doing psychedelics and they'll be like, well, don't you think you can, you know, work on those things in therapy and, you know, help yourself just, you know, you're not working hard enough or whatnot. I think the beauty of this life is that we all get to choose our own adventure.

And I hear I'm a person who has chosen the adventure of psychedelics and to advocate for it because I, it was the only thing in my life that really provided like that impact that I think was quite. You know, instant, and so as I started working on it, but it wasn't, it's a meandering path, it's not a straight path, you go up, you contract, you're like, what the hell is going on all of a sudden, you know, like there's so many ways it goes and people kind of give up on it. So I think that um I think people get to choose what I'm not here to convince anyone to do psychedelics. Either you're gonna feel cold and you can see the growth and you're like. I get it. I'm, I'm interested in trying this path, but believe me, if people, you know, take the path of deep meditation, I'm sure they can get there too. You know, yeah, I'm not trying to push anybody either. That's like, you know, I think it's an extremely useful tool for me and anybody. It can help get to layers that I just know myself. There's no amount of therapy I could have done to be able to get to where I needed to be, or even sometimes just to have the emotional purges that you just can't even tap into to let your mind finally let go of that stuff. And so for me it's just part of my Being a human practice to continually clear emotions, get insights, creativity, have fun, but also I do all the other things. I meditate, I reflect, I journal, right? I'm not just, you know, I'm not thinking that that one thing is a panacea and it solves my problems. It's a tool to help me dive even deeper.

Totally agree. Totally agree. And I actually think that, um, I don't really take psychedelics that much anymore, you know, I do it very, like, to clear my field. I microdose regularly, um, but I don't have a lot of macro journeys, um, because I, I, I, I did it. I did a lot of it. And I sit with people all the time, so I Collection constantly of like, Oh, I see compassion, or, oh, and, you know, I'm going on my Vipassana retreat in 2 weeks, you know, days. It's like my 3rd 1 in 2 years. And so, I do these other practices that, um, I think psychedelics gave me, showed me that these other practices are these very sustainable forever practices for me. And those are the ones that I really lean on now. But of course, I mean, I, as I mentioned, I'm doing an Ibogain journey because I'm called to do that. I want to know what I can't see, you know, and psychedelics shows us who we are, what our shadows are, what we have to work with, what our patterns. So, um, you know, over time, it's definitely Uh, the, the cadence has gotten much less overall.

And that's what I find interesting. You can't really explain to somebody who's never done psychedelics is It tells you when to stop taking it. There is never like, I started taking mushrooms and I crave them all the time. No, there's always a very, no, like it will always tell you no. Yeah, no other drugs do that. Cocaine doesn't tell you no. Then then people just loop loop all the drugs together like, oh, psychedelics are just like, you know, weed and cocaine and all this stuff, but you're right, it has a clear And it's like, I think it was McKennas, you know, when you, when you've heard the message, you hang up the phone, and psychedelics will tell you when you got the message most of the time. I think a lot of people that have been doing psychedelics for a long time have a similar story or resonate with that experience of, yeah, I was just told I need to chill out or like they told me to stop, and it's not in like a I've hit a rock bottom way like other drugs. It's more like a, oh, I've got what I needed, and now my body is just telling me. That's enough for now. I can come back later. The door is always open, but I need to go integrate. I need to go do these other things that I know are sustainable and can last a long time.

And if you do see people addicted, it's a mental, potentially ego-filled. You know, they're just trying to, they've gotten so deep into, I'm part of a group or I'm leading things and I'm their identity like I, I do ayahuasca every weekend, so, you know, they get addicted to that identity. It's not the medicine being addicted. Right, it's people, you know, I see people that have come for years and have the same issues, literally walked in, they were like, you know, nobody loves me and it's same like years later and they've gone through 20 facilitators at that point, you know, sticking to their story. So, how coachable are we to ourselves? How, how quickly are we, of all the work that I've done, like all my personal work, I'll tell you now, now when I get the download, literally, I'll enact it like 2 hours later. Oh, I need to do that. Oh, I need to do that. Like I don't sit on it and negotiate with myself because that channel is clear. Like if I want to move to whatever the next point is in my own growth.

I need to like be very quick to coach myself through it. So when you take on new uh clients or journeyers, whatever you want to call them, is there a sort of an intake or are you sussing out certain things where you may not want to work with that person, or they just shouldn't be taking the medicine? Oh yeah, I mean, there's definitely people that I'll say no to that they're, you know, um. Because I don't feel like I'm the right person for them. What would those people be? Yeah, they're people that, you know, they'll tell me, you know, that they're. Treatment resistant depression, they've tried ayahuasca, they've tried everything, they're still, you know, dealing with the same issues that they've had before, you know, years and years before, and they've tried, none of, none of the facilitators have worked for them. Like it's the story. I'm not saying that it's anyone's fault. I'm saying that when I see people that have really tried everything, um, I'm not sure it's That they're open to the information that's coming through. I don't think it's always about the facilitator of the medicine. I think maybe it's, you know, their ego function. Also, anybody who feels, um, this is my last resort, like, uh, is, is like, so, like, this is it. I'm hinging everything on it. Has to work. I've life changing.

And I'm gonna do this one journey with you, but this better fucking work, right? And it's like that is so much OK, but it doesn't work like that. Like I don't even know what your journey is gonna show you or if you're 100% gonna drop in where you need to go or, you know, and so there's this. Um, there's this almost like navigating, um, you know, certain people that are in a, in a state, but where I do think like there's this idea that I don't agree with. People say that if you're in a, in a, you know, or, or some people say that if you're in a fragile state, this might not be the time to do it. I totally disagree. And the reason for that is because if you think about how this medicine worked with, you know, all, all the shamans and everyone, you would live in your little village, you would feel bad, you didn't know why, you would come to the shaman. And he would help you work out your stuff, and I'm not saying I'm a shaman by any means. I'm saying if we think about like history, right? You didn't go to the doctor or the shaman when you felt great. You went when you didn't feel great, right? Because life had gotten taken some direction that didn't feel in line. So the fact is, now we just have a lot more of people being very and lot.

Ways. Obviously, the regular stuff, if any, any kind of, you know, self-harm, any kind of ideation where they're hurting themselves or others, you know, schizophrenia, bipolar, any of that kind of stuff, uh, obviously is a no, no. SSRIs for MDMA, no, no, you know, so there's just certain qualifiers of medicine, mental state. Yeah, I agree with what you said so much. I've tried to be a proponent of that for so long that being in a fragile state doesn't mean don't do. The medicine, that is when you should, but I think it, it's very similar to when your physical body is hurt. If you tweak your back, you have to wait till your back is out of that acute pain phase before you start doing rehab. You don't tweak your back and then the next day start doing like light deadlifts. You have to actually let it rest for a while until, you know, it's still achy, it hurts, but you can move properly without hurting yourself. And same thing with with the mind, if you just had a serious traumatic event, maybe don't do mushrooms. Right away, like give it a day or some however long it takes for it to not be an acute thing, like you're a loved one passes away. Maybe not that afternoon is the time to do psychedelics, or maybe it is really depends on how fast you can get out of the acute emotional phase, but when you're still in pain is a good time to do it, the timing is that important, so you're more in like.

You know, you're in a healing a place to heal, but it's not the most intense physical or emotional sensation. Is that something you agree with or would you take a different approach? Yeah, I, I agree. I, I think oftentimes when people are in grief, it's a very painful time. I've personally been in grief and taken psychedelics and accessed a level of grief I didn't even think was possible, you know, in my body, like all the things that were stored and accelerated my healing. And so I do think that if people are in acute crisis. Then it's a no. If they're in like genuine acute crisis where they're in, you know, like they're having a breakdown, no absolute no, but any other kind of human experiences, heartbreak. Death of somebody we love, you know, being fired, life falling apart, finding out that, you know, we might be ill and dealing with how do we support ourselves, you know, those are all things that I actually think our psychedelics can be supportive with in the right containers.

With the right expectations being set, um, because as we know, even through those crises, the experience itself might not show any of that. It might show us something completely different. Yeah, I was curious, what is the app, because when you're taking MDMA mushrooms, especially MDMA, you're changing. The neurochemistry quite a bit. And I know, I think MDMA is actually a two-day ceremony in that The down day is actually part. Of integration and it's part of That ceremony and taking care of yourselves. And I think that's important for, even if you're just taking it recreationally. To be aware of that. Lower down day because of the serotonin drop, you know, how do you like to prepare or take care of people or recommendations for what they should do? Gosh, OK, so I have a whole protocol. It doesn't mean people always take it. I'll give you like the really simplified version of what people have the capacity to take, and then the protocol that I recommend. So yeah, there's a, you know, serotonin is depleted during an MDMA ceremony.

And often that spells contraction, depression, where you're back in your life and you're like, my life sucks. I don't know what just happened, why am I doing this? My marriage is over, you know, like all these in like the bottom of the barrel feelings, which is exactly the opposite of what we want. So, a magnesium glycinate is a really important, um, great thing ahead of time. It's really simply just helps with the muscle and jaw clenching, and so I recommend people to take that, you know, a week before. I have a very, um, I have a protocol that's like 4 days before, during, and after, which I'm happy to share. It has all do. I will share it with you guys. I actually am about to put it on social also, just like for free, just to give to people to access, which is like all the things. When people do this, they barely have any down at all. Um, but just regular, you know, folks look at it and they're like, uh, this is a lot. I'm not gonna do that. So for them, we basically do magnesium, glycinate, great, they go into their session afterwards, they have to wait 24 hours after their session and there they can take 5HTP.

Um, which is really great for rebuilding serotonin and it's available at Amazon or anything like that. So those are kind of like the big ones, but I'll show you guys that, that way more robust one where people like that are in this work that know that it's worth an extra 20 minutes to take some more vitamins. That's great. Yeah, I think it's very important. Do you have a recommendation of how that day should be structured, things they shouldn't do, should do, other than just, you know, supplements? Oh, you mean like recreationally if they're taking it, like what they should or shouldn't. No, just like after the ceremony, right? It's the next day you're having a down day. Don't go to work. Don't have some crazy meeting, right? Probably maybe don't, I don't know, have an event you gotta talk to a bunch of people or how to nurture yourself. Don't, don't cut your bangs. Don't break up with your partner like we said. Um, yeah, I mean the next day is definitely part of the experience and part of it is being gentle with yourself, you know, create things around. Sometimes you don't want to connect with people, but connecting with people actually makes you feel better overall, you know, holding up in your house, eating like, you know, takeout food is not the greatest way to recalibrate your body. I actually think the day after sauna and cold plunge is amazing, amazing.

And brings people right back to where they come down is, you know, very shortened by a lot, um, and then, you know, the obvious things, community, nutrition, space, nature, right, like. All the things Yeah, I think that's, that's important. Do you, what are, what are like, so people are looking for someone in their area, what are the like red flags or no nos of working with a facilitator because there's a lot of wild stuff going on out there and you just don't know. And I think People come across like, oh, cool, this person, she seems great. And I think it would be good for people to understand. How to know if that's a good person to work with. Just like what's a bedside manner like, what are like some of the things that if you experience going as a client going to someone, you're like that is a person you definitely shouldn't probably work with. I mean, I, I hear the stories all the time cause then people come afterwards, you know, they, they land in, in, in my container or other people I know. I had a very dear friend who's a psychedelics advocate, who's an influencer called me up maybe 3 months ago and she's like, oh my God, we need to do a post on, you know.

The right, like, how to choose your facilitator. What are the qualities, right? We're choosing with. And, um, people, so, as an example of what's out there, you know, this facilitator had probably 20 people that she was facilitating. She was smoking joints the entire time, you know. Um, and she was in and out of the room on a regular basis. They didn't know where she was. Everyone was left up to their devices, just like chaos, confusion, no container whatsoever, you know, they got people in and that was it. Um, so, there are certain things. Number one, I would ask my facilitator where they trained, how many people they've been with. Um, I would also, any kind of sexual innuendo, if there's any kind of energy between the facilitator and you, it's a hard no, because you're Um, needs to absolutely relax. Um, anytime the facilitator is making it about them, you're doing your intake and out of 30 minutes, the facilitator's talking about them and what they do for 20 of those minutes. That's, for me, would be a marker of a no, because I want you to know me.

I'm coming to you. You don't need to sell me on your, your rights, right? So, also, um, you know, who they work with, like, what their history is, what their medicine, where they source their medicine. I mean, there's a lot of questions, um, you know, a lot of facilitators, there's a lot of people, this is kind of like the gold rush, you know, when everyone was a yoga teacher. Yeah. A yoga teacher, and like, there's like a, a 2 month training. I'm myself, I'm offering a 3 month training bilitation starting in June, but I'm doing a deep dive. I don't offer like a, accreditation, and, you know, a lot of people are doing this after they've done two journeys, having no experience whatsoever. They are holding space for their friends, they are charging people, so there's, yeah, you know, anybody who, this is the kind of work where I actually think the age is a good thing. Yes, experience is super important.

Yeah, Experience is really important. So let's get to the good stuff. If I want a party, what's the, what are all the tips and tricks to get the most out of that party on MDMA? So tips because how I got introduced to it was through the rave scene. Press pills, and it was a great time. And I mean, it was, I was like, how is this illegal? This is connecting with everybody and whatnot. But, you know, you stay up till 6 a.m. and Uh, you know, you have no idea of how to take care of yourself or supplements. I mean, you're like 1718 years old, right? And I think just the little things of like setting an intention or Hydration with magnesium, and some of these, you know, set and setting or just preparing the next couple of days of, you know, so many things I feel like. Could help, but I feel like you have some more advanced tips and tricks beyond that. I mean, you know, there is like the gold standard, you know, and what you're mentioning, electrolytes, not too much water. Electrolytes are your friend. You want to make sure that, you know, that's what you're drinking and That's what it is, right? So you, the magnesium, yes, you want to make sure you're in a setting where, you know, a lot of people go to raves and they go to these very open settings, and luckily with MDMA there are some people that have that.

But mostly they just feel a lot of love, right? But you minimize the bad experiences by being in a closed container, like maybe it's not a rave, maybe you're at someone's house, right? Set and setting what your mindset is and what your external setting is. So how much are you taking, um, you know, not re-dosing like every 2 minutes because, you know, that's what you think you should be doing and then wondering why you feel like crap afterwards. Making sure that even through, you know, you eat before, 3 hours before is kind of the, you know, practice and um you don't eat a really big heavy meal like in England they're like they'll go have a kebab. I'm like, don't do that. Yeah, no. Don't do that, like, treat your body like truly like a temple when you're going in, um, making sure that you have, if you are going in a rave, like you have a safe space that you can come back to if you feel overwhelmed, right? So the next day, um, you know, sometimes people want to talk, sometimes people don't want to talk, you know, everyone's experience is different, but Yeah, it's all the gold standard, you know, you'll hear me talk about certain vitamins and certain things on TikTok because literally that's what people want to know. That's what people want to know. So, um, but yeah, I mean, in, in my old school days, at the end, we would take vitamin C.

You know, at the very, very, very end, people are like, well, that, you know, ruins your journey, and I don't think it does. I actually think at the very end, if you're like at the end and you're like, oh my God, it's over. I'm so sad. That is a great time to take vitamin C because it actually can reboot the MDNA for a certain amount of time and have help with a little bit of afterglow, but I will share with you my 4 day protocol that is good for anyone going to a rave or anyone. Oh, like spending in the weekend, as long as they follow exactly what it is, they're gonna feel great. That's awesome. Well, so when you say share, where will we find these? Can we throw them in the show notes or? Yeah, I'll, I'll give you my, um, you know, waiting to do actually is I, I, I'm doing it on my, um. I, I'm doing it as like a freebie on my, on my social, so maybe they'll, I'll, I'll, let me think about the best way to do this, but yes, I will definitely give you something that you can.

Cool. Yeah. Were you a, uh, were you a like a recreational user beforehand, before you got into all the medicinal stuff? All right, so the lore, the lore is when I was 20 years old, my first job in New York City was I was the right-hand person of the person who ran Limelight and Palladium in New York during its heyday 1992, 1993 when the clubs were the clubs. So I lived this life. I Was the, you know, the person people went to. I knew every person where to get from, where to buy from, you know, do all the things, and I, and I loved it, like I loved MDMA so much, and I did it a lot for probably about 2 years. I'm talking like every other weekend for sure, um, and, and then one day it just turned on me, like it does on so many people, and my body just I started getting very depressed after sessions, and um and my friends sat me down and basically looked at me and said, we think you have a problem.

And I looked at them and I said, I think you're right. And that was it. That's when I stopped. But I lived that life, and then I never went back in that way again. Um, but I certainly, you know, we, we were, you know, drinking orange juice and figuring out, you know, what works with what, and, you know, doing all the things back then as well. Yeah, it's fun being in an experimenter. When you're, you know, early days, cause I think we all had the same start. You start with recreation, raves, I was a DJ, worked in the nightlife industry, like you're just surrounded by it, and, you know, when I allegedly sold MDMA, allegedly, you know, we would, we would put vitamin C in the MDMA so it would last longer and you just save some of the supply and, you know, I would never cut with anything bad. It's like vitamin C, it's good, you know, I'm, I'm helping people's immunity, allegedly, allegedly, allegedly, thank you. So, yeah, I think it's, it's fun that everybody had this sort of Recreational upbringing because that's the alluring part when you're young is like I wanna party, I wanna have a good time, but then the medicine just similar to your experience, it, it shuts you down in a way where it's like, hey, you know, I think you've had enough fun. It's time to go into the classroom. How can we use this for good? How can we use this for education and for healing?

And um and you're not supposed to take it every weekend. You're also not supposed to, yeah, I did the same shit. You're not supposed to take it. I did the exact same thing. It's good times for about a year or two and then everyone's like, oh it's like black clouds. Best 2 years of my life taking it every weekend and then worst year of my life quit following quickly after. All in the same boat, you know, we did it, but, you know, I remember sitting in my therapist's office and kind of having to look a little bit of shame, like, yeah, there was this time period in my life where like I did this, and she looked at me, this was years ago, before I even, you know, went on this second sprint with this, um, and she looked at me and she was like, Isn't it amazing that you found just the right thing to open your heart at a time when you didn't know how to do that. And it was this really beautiful reframe of like, yeah, that was the thing that allowed me to connect in a way that I didn't have the capacity to otherwise. So, you know, I understand anyone, whether they're dancing all night or whether they're connecting that way, how powerful it could be, you know.

Yeah, that's so true. The reframe is super important because, yeah, I mean I think back to my story too, it's the thing I craved most was acceptance and community and You got that, you know, you get that with MDMA or the rave scene and, and all of that and being able to build up the confidence to speak to people. I didn't really have much of that when I was younger, and MDMA really gives you the confidence to go speak to people. So it, it allows you the space to do the healing, whether you, you mean to do it for healing or not. Yep, exactly. Agreed. Do you have any talks coming up? I know you've done some live streams with Individuals in the space, um, on your YouTube channel, right? Uh, yeah, I did two panels. You know, for me, the panels are really very intuitive and instinctual. Like I have to feel it. I actually, I'm starting to think about, you know, connecting with a bunch of different other people that are on TikTok that are really kind of the voices in the space and us. Main live stream together. There's like 4 or 5 people that have crossed my orbit, but I haven't done that yet. This is like, I'm just giving you my, you know, insight, but I don't have anything on the calendar. I have an event on Tuesday with, um, Rick Doblin and Laura Dunn. She's running for Congress. She's A client of mine, I'm allowed to say it. And, um, and in New York, you know, I'm co-hosting this event. But in terms of actual panels where I'm speaking or connecting with other people that are speaking, I don't have anything on the calendar. I'll probably do something this year.

And the women's one you did, I didn't get a chance to watch it. Can you tell me, like, what were some of the cool takeaways from that one? Yeah, well, for the women's one, so I did one before the women's, which I realized I was like when the medicine isn't getting legalized, MDMA specifically, I thought. This, the underground is like, has all the info. Like, we better, you know, really utilize the underground and bring everyone together, but the underground is disjointed for a reason, right? Because we're living in the gray area in a lot of ways. Um, and so I did my first one, and after that, I was like, that went really well. I should do another one. And the, the other one. That kind of came to me was really around doing it around the women of psychedelics. So, I connected with a dear friend of mine. Her name is Mara Hoffman, and she used to have a clothing line. She's a badass and longtime psychedelic, you know, um, deep diver. And, um, another woman named Maita, who has a big community out in New York. Another person, um, who just passed recently, who was my first mentor, whose name, um, uh, Louisa Bah, who passed when, you know, literally in December. And one other woman, her name is Lisa Cooper, we all work with different medicines. And so, it was just beautiful. You know, what was so incredible was sitting.

With these other women that have literally held thousands of people, like thousands of people in their orbit, you know, and so it was the resonance of everyone being together, sharing their protocol, and everyone's different, like no one was, you know, I always say we all have the same boss, right? So at a certain point, like, it just support each other, they're to go around for everybody. Um, and we really, um, yeah, it was a beautiful night to find out that my mentor, you know, literally was sick and passed two months later, so it's the only recording of her, and she sat with 25,000 people. Wow. So it's that kind of thing like having these kinds of connections, you know, where people have access to some of that don't. That's great. Have you launched your six-month program? Is that coming up? Was that? It's coming up. It's not, I'm working on it like very, very intently.

Awesome. Well, where people find you? I know, I think they can, you have a site where they could potentially work with you, do you also refer if they're not nearby and um, Yeah, the best way to get in touch with me, actually, is probably through Instagram or TikTok. So, on both, I'm underground. mama because, um, I do get into the DMs every single day. And I do have a website, but I found that going through the website just, it's a whole other thing. So, the DMs in either those social channels are definitely the best way to reach me. That's fantastic. Awesome. Do you, final thing here, unless Brent has something else, but do you have Just any words of wisdom to people that are getting into the psychedelic space that are a little maybe like trepidatious about it or they're unsure about it, any wisdom from the underground mama to pass some maternal words of advice. Yes. Uh, I say, find a guide to feel yourself safely held and to know what it's like to be in a container where everything is really looked after. And once, I mean, I still sit with guides all the time. You know, I sit with guides. So, um, yeah, and, and trust, trust yourself if you're pulled, if, if you're drawn in this direction, the medicine is talking to you. So, trust yourself while you take care of yourself.

Yeah, very good. Beautiful, Lana. Thank you so much for, thank you guys so much. It was awesome. Your studio is beautiful and my shitty phone. It's totally fine. It's on, on brand. When you come, when is your eye again and when are you coming in August. Oh, cool, very cool. Well, we look forward to hearing about that if you're open to sharing. I'll check. Yeah, I'll check it. All right, thank you so much for having me. Yeah, thanks, Elana. Thank you.